What is the best MCU?

[newbie]

Hi,
I know it's probably a bity cheeky but I an looking at moving away from PIC's but only if there is a good alternative, does anyone know of a really good MCU + Development environment?

Cost is not really a problem as long as the MCU has loads of hardware features, can be programmed in C or Basic, Has a great ICE kit avaliable.

Thanks
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 13926

[Mark DSylva]

<font face="Courier New" size=-1>:=Hi,
:=I know it's probably a bity cheeky but I an looking at moving away from PIC's but only if there is a good alternative, does anyone know of a really good MCU + Development environment?
:=
:=Cost is not really a problem as long as the MCU has loads of hardware features, can be programmed in C or Basic, Has a great ICE kit avaliable.
:=
:=Thanks

Best for what? You may want to have a look at the Nitron family from Motorola, or their 68HC12/HCS12 micros. You can also get a free evaluation version of CodeWarrior, which is a decent C compiler/IDE made by metrowerks. (owned by Motorola now)

Here are a few links to info on the Nitron :

<a href="http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0203/jeff151/" TARGET="_blank"> <a href="http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0203/jeff151/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0203/jeff151/</a></a>

<a href="http://www.silica.com/special_offer/mot-20021017.html" TARGET="_blank"> <a href="http://www.silica.com/special_offer/mot-20021017.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.silica.com/special_offer/mot-20021017.html</a></a>

<a href="http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20021110S0002" TARGET="_blank"> <a href="http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20021110S0002" TARGET="_blank">http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20021110S0002</a></a>



Mark</font>
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 13928

[R.J.Hamlett]

:=Hi,
:=I know it's probably a bity cheeky but I an looking at moving away from PIC's but only if there is a good alternative, does anyone know of a really good MCU + Development environment?
:=
:=Cost is not really a problem as long as the MCU has loads of hardware features, can be programmed in C or Basic, Has a great ICE kit avaliable.
:=
:=Thanks
Your question, really makes no sense.
For instance, if you want to do massive processing on high frequency analog signals, then you should be looking at a DSP. Conversely, if you need a large memory map, and run something like Linux, then one of the embedded x86 chips becomes probably 'best'.
Any micro can be programmed in languages like C (there are specialist companies who spend their time writing these sorts of tools).
The 'point' about the PIC, is that it is cheap, has a range of available hardware - running from chips like the 12C508, up to the various 18x units, all of which are remarkably 'code common', enough performance for a lot of applications, and is fairly power efficient. I have a couple of projects here, where several processors are used, with the small ones all being PIC variants, with a x86 as the main processing 'core'. Conversely on other jobs, I have used the ST6 family, the H8, embedded versions of the 68000, the Z80, etc. etc.. You should be chosing the processor based on the hardware needed.
The ICE availability, depends on price. For instance, there is a German company who makes a great range of ICE units, which are reprogrammable to emulate most processors. However the cost can be enormous. Most embedded processors have good ICE support in one form or another.
For relatively 'non specialist' processors, the names that leap to mind, are the Atmel AVR, various 8051/52 derivatives, ARM based chips, and the PIC etc. etc.. However none is 'best' in the real world, with a balance having to be drawn on the required functions, cost, etc. etc..
To get a really good development suite, and ICE, for some of the more powerfull chips, can easily run into $10000+. However these same chips, also tend to be the ones that cost only a few cents, when purchased as a 'core', or embedded directly into custom silicon, and hence are the preferred solution for mass production.
Specify which hardware features you actually need, and those you would 'like', together with the likely useage, and budget, and somebody may be able to give a suggestion which chip then fills this design the best.

Best Wishes
___________________________
This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 13929

[newbie]

:=:=Hi,
:=:=I know it's probably a bity cheeky but I an looking at moving away from PIC's but only if there is a good alternative, does anyone know of a really good MCU + Development environment?
:=:=
:=:=Cost is not really a problem as long as the MCU has loads of hardware features, can be programmed in C or Basic, Has a great ICE kit avaliable.
:=:=
:=:=Thanks
:=Your question, really makes no sense.
:=For instance, if you want to do massive processing on high frequency analog signals, then you should be looking at a DSP. Conversely, if you need a large memory map, and run something like Linux, then one of the embedded x86 chips becomes probably 'best'.
:=Any micro can be programmed in languages like C (there are specialist companies who spend their time writing these sorts of tools).
:=The 'point' about the PIC, is that it is cheap, has a range of available hardware - running from chips like the 12C508, up to the various 18x units, all of which are remarkably 'code common', enough performance for a lot of applications, and is fairly power efficient. I have a couple of projects here, where several processors are used, with the small ones all being PIC variants, with a x86 as the main processing 'core'. Conversely on other jobs, I have used the ST6 family, the H8, embedded versions of the 68000, the Z80, etc. etc.. You should be chosing the processor based on the hardware needed.
:=The ICE availability, depends on price. For instance, there is a German company who makes a great range of ICE units, which are reprogrammable to emulate most processors. However the cost can be enormous. Most embedded processors have good ICE support in one form or another.
:=For relatively 'non specialist' processors, the names that leap to mind, are the Atmel AVR, various 8051/52 derivatives, ARM based chips, and the PIC etc. etc.. However none is 'best' in the real world, with a balance having to be drawn on the required functions, cost, etc. etc..
:=To get a really good development suite, and ICE, for some of the more powerfull chips, can easily run into $10000+. However these same chips, also tend to be the ones that cost only a few cents, when purchased as a 'core', or embedded directly into custom silicon, and hence are the preferred solution for mass production.
:=Specify which hardware features you actually need, and those you would 'like', together with the likely useage, and budget, and somebody may be able to give a suggestion which chip then fills this design the best.
:=
:=Best Wishes

Point taken, I suppose there never will be a MCU to meet all needs, I suppose I'm looking for the best to develop with and a little more RAM / Code space than the pics, so I don't start a project and run aground in the later stages.

It would be nice if you could write you code on a PC with all it's hardware, ram, code space, including a add on proto board for extra hardware etc. then ask a program to analyse your requirements and select a MCU that would fit. then you dont have to worry about anything.

Maybe one day we will be able to write code like this and have MCU's fabed up to meet the requirements, or even a home fab MCU kit. till then I suppose it's google and lots of head scratching.


Thanks for being patient.
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 13930

[jds-pic]

:=It would be nice if you could write you code on a PC with all it's hardware, ram, code space, including a add on proto board for extra hardware etc. then ask a program to analyse your requirements and select a MCU that would fit. then you dont have to worry about anything.
:=
:=Maybe one day we will be able to write code like this and have MCU's fabed up to meet the requirements, or even a home fab MCU kit. till then I suppose it's google and lots of head scratching.

why would you want this?
we would all be out of a job, even the pointy head MBA's could do it by point and click!!!

LoL

jim

ps
seriously though, you have a good point, and that is where just-in-time programmable logic is going. so these days you see devices like the Virtex II Pro from Xilinx; basically it is up to 4 moto/ibm 405GP PPC cores, some high speed serial interface pipelines, a bunch of peripherals, all surrounded by a bajillion reconfigurable gates. you get a couple of processors and all the logic you could ever need on a single chip. buy a book on system design, another on VHDL, and US$50K of synthesis/simulation software and you can do whatever you want with these puppies. suffice to say that this is a double edged sword, as this flexibility comes at a price.

but i have a suggestion -- it will be difficult for you or anyone to become "master" of lots of architectures. so select a few to learn completely, and in different ranges. e.g. PIC and PPC, for example, as these are commonly found in small to midrange appliances (like handheld devices and ADSL modems, for example). the breadth of the PIC is increasing, now you see 40MHz parts. and similarly the PPC is ubiquitous and broad (from low cost 855-ish parts to maxed out 8260's and the aforementioned Virtex II Pro type stuff). just knowing the PIC won't be enough, eventually you run into a problem that needs external RAM or a large filestore or more CPU power or whatever. and similarly, if you have a small data aquisition job a $15 mpc855 + support logic is overkill in a big way. so my suggestion is to learn complementary technologies. once you are totally fluent in PIC, it's not a whole lot of value to learn AVR since there is a lot of overlap. better to scale a bit, learn about POSIX RTOS's on "real" HW (e.g. QNX or RT/Linux on PPC) and fatten up your resume/skillbase with the ability to solve larger problems.
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 13935

[newbie]

:=Hi,
:=I know it's probably a bity cheeky but I an looking at moving away from PIC's but only if there is a good alternative, does anyone know of a really good MCU + Development environment?
:=
:=Cost is not really a problem as long as the MCU has loads of hardware features, can be programmed in C or Basic, Has a great ICE kit avaliable.
:=
:=Thanks

Thanks you guys, as usual you point people in the right direction and help sooth a sore head :O)
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 13938

[Guest]

[ourawomba]

Hi

If you are looking for something quite new, you can try a little surf on www.zilog.com.

They have mainly two different MCU series:
- Z8 encore, a bit like PIC.
- eZ80 for higher need, faster etc..

You can get REALLY complete developpement kit for 99$. Including a totaly free, without limitation, C IDE.

Pascal

[Jeff King]