20MHz ICD-S

ajt · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 110

Is anyone having a problem where clicking the reset button causes an error box to appear saying to check the target oscillator and MCLR?

In my case the 3.68MHz verions works fine in all respects but the 20MHZ is not useable given this problem. Initially, I could not do anything except the inital program load but later versions of the ccdicd20.hex seem to have improved the situation and now it only does it on the reset.

I sure would like to be using the 20MHZ version but can't with this problem remaining.
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westy · Guest

Is it the higher speed icd-s20 that you have, and not trying to load the 20Mhz software into the slower icd-s?
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ajt · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 110

Yes, I took one of the ICD-1 boards and changed out the crystal.

It all works except the Reset gives the error message in mentioned and won't go any further.

:=Is it the higher speed icd-s20 that you have, and not trying to load the 20Mhz software into the slower icd-s?
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Douglas Kennedy · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 755 Location: Florida

I have the ICD1 (16F876 )also and I swapped out the crystal to 20 mhz.
It worked just fine for me and is several times faster than the ICD2 from microchip.

You may already know this

The upgrade of the ICD1 is a two step process (CCS bootloader and CCS firmware).
The boootloader is specific to the xtal frequency either 3.68 or 20 mhz.

First you need to get a CCS 20 MHZ bootloader into the ICD1.( It relaces the 876 3.68 bootloader from Microchip)
The 20 mhz bootloader only needs to be installed once however the firmware is upgraded based on CCS releases.
I used picstart imported the bootloader hex file and flashed it into the 16F876.
Next using PCW and ICDS I upgraded the firmware. With the CCS 20 bootloader in flash the ICD1 ( now an ICD20S ) will accept future ICDS firmware downloads at 115kbs 
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ajt · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 110

Yes, did all of that and it works fine except when using the PCW Debugger.

I can download code, set breakpoints, step, etc. but when I click to reset the target I get an error box saying to check the target oscillator and MCLR. With everything the same but a 3.68MHz ICD-S it all works as advertised. In previosu versions of the debugger and ICDS-20 firmware the error box would come up for all functions including when the debugger was re-attaching to the target after loading code. It is getting better but still doesn't work fully at 20MHz.

:=I have the ICD1 (16F876 )also and I swapped out the crystal to 20 mhz.
:=It worked just fine for me and is several times faster than the ICD2 from microchip.
:=
:=You may already know this
:=
:=The upgrade of the ICD1 is a two step process (CCS bootloader and CCS firmware).
:=The boootloader is specific to the xtal frequency either 3.68 or 20 mhz.
:=
:=First you need to get a CCS 20 MHZ bootloader into the ICD1.( It relaces the 876 3.68 bootloader from Microchip)
:=The 20 mhz bootloader only needs to be installed once however the firmware is upgraded based on CCS releases.
:=I used picstart imported the bootloader hex file and flashed it into the 16F876.
:=Next using PCW and ICDS I upgraded the firmware. With the CCS 20 bootloader in flash the ICD1 ( now an ICD20S ) will accept future ICDS firmware downloads at 115kbs 
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 14087
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Shep · Guest

Haven't been keeping up with the times these days...

If I did this does it mean I can use my ICD1 to program 18F parts?

Do i also need MPLAB 6?

:=I have the ICD1 (16F876 )also and I swapped out the crystal to 20 mhz.
:=It worked just fine for me and is several times faster than the ICD2 from microchip.
:=
:=You may already know this
:=
:=The upgrade of the ICD1 is a two step process (CCS bootloader and CCS firmware).
:=The boootloader is specific to the xtal frequency either 3.68 or 20 mhz.
:=
:=First you need to get a CCS 20 MHZ bootloader into the ICD1.( It relaces the 876 3.68 bootloader from Microchip)
:=The 20 mhz bootloader only needs to be installed once however the firmware is upgraded based on CCS releases.
:=I used picstart imported the bootloader hex file and flashed it into the 16F876.
:=Next using PCW and ICDS I upgraded the firmware. With the CCS 20 bootloader in flash the ICD1 ( now an ICD20S ) will accept future ICDS firmware downloads at 115kbs 
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 14097

ajt · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 110

BTW, the 3.155 version of the debugger and the associated ccsicd20.hex file still have the problem.

:=Yes, did all of that and it works fine except when using the PCW Debugger.
:=
:=I can download code, set breakpoints, step, etc. but when I click to reset the target I get an error box saying to check the target oscillator and MCLR. With everything the same but a 3.68MHz ICD-S it all works as advertised. In previosu versions of the debugger and ICDS-20 firmware the error box would come up for all functions including when the debugger was re-attaching to the target after loading code. It is getting better but still doesn't work fully at 20MHz.
:=
:=:=I have the ICD1 (16F876 )also and I swapped out the crystal to 20 mhz.
:=:=It worked just fine for me and is several times faster than the ICD2 from microchip.
:=:=
:=:=You may already know this
:=:=
:=:=The upgrade of the ICD1 is a two step process (CCS bootloader and CCS firmware).
:=:=The boootloader is specific to the xtal frequency either 3.68 or 20 mhz.
:=:=
:=:=First you need to get a CCS 20 MHZ bootloader into the ICD1.( It relaces the 876 3.68 bootloader from Microchip)
:=:=The 20 mhz bootloader only needs to be installed once however the firmware is upgraded based on CCS releases.
:=:=I used picstart imported the bootloader hex file and flashed it into the 16F876.
:=:=Next using PCW and ICDS I upgraded the firmware. With the CCS 20 bootloader in flash the ICD1 ( now an ICD20S ) will accept future ICDS firmware downloads at 115kbs 
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 14100
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westy · Guest

Well, as I understand it, there is an initial hex file loaded into the icd's - a version for the icd-s and a different one for the icd-s20. This file is not, afaik, normally with the ccs downloads (The clue being that if you change from the mplab icd software back to the ccs icd-s or icd-s20 version, and you can't reload the ccs icd-s software, then you have to send the icd-s back to ccs. The icd help file - icd.chm - gives some info. on this.) I contacted ccs about the fact that the cost/delay in returning the unit was not justified, just in order to probably getting a bootloader reinstalled. They sent me a copy of the hex file they load into the 20Mhz chip, with the instructions to install it, either by using the icsp connector or a programming clip. If this bootloader file existed on their www site, or elsewhere, I presume they would have said where it was. I think you may need this file.

I have not yet upgraded my ccs icd-s, but I did upgrade the mplab icd to 20MHz, and installed the ccs 20MHz software to that. I do seem to recall that it took a number of attempts for the icd 'to be found' (using win 2000, but I'm sort of used to this sort of problem). It then seemed to settle down somewhat. As I do not have the ccs pcw ide, I can use the icd only for programming, not debugging.

CCS also said that you can invoke the ICD.EXE program with the +DEBUGLOG option, and you can then view the C:\ICDLOG.TXT file.

I have not found any spectacular improvement in programming speed with the 20MHz icd, for the 16f series of pics that I use, which is one of the reasons I have not altered the icd-s.

I don't know if the foregoing is any help, but at least you are not on your own.

Best Wishes,

Ray
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Original Post ID: 14101

Douglas Kennedy · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 755 Location: Florida

:=Haven't been keeping up with the times these days...
:=
:=If I did this does it mean I can use my ICD1 to program 18F parts?
:=
:=Do i also need MPLAB 6?
:=
Yes it does 18F parts and several times faster than ICD2.
No you don't need MPLAB6
I think we all knew it was technically possible that 18F parts could be programmed via the ICD1. Perhaps Microchip took a Marketing decision to promote ICD2 but since ICD2 added no real additional value above USB and hockey puck styling they decided to trash the ICD1 saying it could not support the 18F just to give the ICD2 a market boost.
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Original Post ID: 14102

ajt · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 110

The speed of loading code into the target is not that much better with the 20MHz ICD-S since the timing is more governed by the time to flash a location that in the interface.

OTOH, the time to break or single step is much faster and this is where, IMO, the beauty of the 20MHz ICD-S lies. Unfortunately, it doesn't work properly with the debugger and therefore is non-functional!

:=Well, as I understand it, there is an initial hex file loaded into the icd's - a version for the icd-s and a different one for the icd-s20. This file is not, afaik, normally with the ccs downloads (The clue being that if you change from the mplab icd software back to the ccs icd-s or icd-s20 version, and you can't reload the ccs icd-s software, then you have to send the icd-s back to ccs. The icd help file - icd.chm - gives some info. on this.) I contacted ccs about the fact that the cost/delay in returning the unit was not justified, just in order to probably getting a bootloader reinstalled. They sent me a copy of the hex file they load into the 20Mhz chip, with the instructions to install it, either by using the icsp connector or a programming clip. If this bootloader file existed on their www site, or elsewhere, I presume they would have said where it was. I think you may need this file.
:=
:=I have not yet upgraded my ccs icd-s, but I did upgrade the mplab icd to 20MHz, and installed the ccs 20MHz software to that. I do seem to recall that it took a number of attempts for the icd 'to be found' (using win 2000, but I'm sort of used to this sort of problem). It then seemed to settle down somewhat. As I do not have the ccs pcw ide, I can use the icd only for programming, not debugging.
:=
:=CCS also said that you can invoke the ICD.EXE program with the +DEBUGLOG option, and you can then view the C:\ICDLOG.TXT file.
:=
:=I have not found any spectacular improvement in programming speed with the 20MHz icd, for the 16f series of pics that I use, which is one of the reasons I have not altered the icd-s.
:=
:=I don't know if the foregoing is any help, but at least you are not on your own.
:=
:=Best Wishes,
:=
:=Ray
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Original Post ID: 14106
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sar · Joined: 08 Sep 2003 Posts: 36

I found that the Icd-s with 20 mhz xtal works best as a debugger if my target pic is running at 20 mhz. If I use the 3.686 mhz xtal and my target pic is 4 mhz then it works ok too. When the Icd-s and the target are different oscillator frequencies then there are debugger problems. Might be something to do with the way the source code is written for the Pcw debugger...I really don't know. This is just my obsevation for some tests I've done. Then again, I'm using a homade Icd-s. Just a note for your intrest......SAR
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ajt · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 110

Interesting.... I have been wondering about this and hadn't yet tried it. My target is a 20MHz F876 running at 12MHz. With the 3.68 ICD-S everything works perfectly. With the 20MHz ICD-S I have the problems noted.

Just tried both the ICD-S and target at 20MHz and it works. I'll let CCS know of the timing issue. It must work independent of the target machine oscillator even if the debugger code needs to look at the #use delay statement in the target source to adjust some timing.

:=I found that the Icd-s with 20 mhz xtal works best as a debugger if my target pic is running at 20 mhz. If I use the 3.686 mhz xtal and my target pic is 4 mhz then it works ok too. When the Icd-s and the target are different oscillator frequencies then there are debugger problems. Might be something to do with the way the source code is written for the Pcw debugger...I really don't know. This is just my obsevation for some tests I've done. Then again, I'm using a homade Icd-s. Just a note for your intrest......SAR
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Original Post ID: 14108
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Shep · Guest

Excellent :)

:=:=Haven't been keeping up with the times these days...
:=:=
:=:=If I did this does it mean I can use my ICD1 to program 18F parts?
:=:=
:=:=Do i also need MPLAB 6?
:=:=
:=Yes it does 18F parts and several times faster than ICD2.
:=No you don't need MPLAB6
:=I think we all knew it was technically possible that 18F parts could be programmed via the ICD1. Perhaps Microchip took a Marketing decision to promote ICD2 but since ICD2 added no real additional value above USB and hockey puck styling they decided to trash the ICD1 saying it could not support the 18F just to give the ICD2 a market boost.
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 14146

Shep · Guest

Err, how do you get it to work in MPLAB so i can debug?

I've got the ICD to program the target using CCS's little proggy, but not debug.

:=:=Haven't been keeping up with the times these days...
:=:=
:=:=If I did this does it mean I can use my ICD1 to program 18F parts?
:=:=
:=:=Do i also need MPLAB 6?
:=:=
:=Yes it does 18F parts and several times faster than ICD2.
:=No you don't need MPLAB6
:=I think we all knew it was technically possible that 18F parts could be programmed via the ICD1. Perhaps Microchip took a Marketing decision to promote ICD2 but since ICD2 added no real additional value above USB and hockey puck styling they decided to trash the ICD1 saying it could not support the 18F just to give the ICD2 a market boost.
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 14197

ajt · Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 110

I don't think you can. The ICD-S is unique to CCS and works with their PCW debugger.

:=Err, how do you get it to work in MPLAB so i can debug?
:=
:=I've got the ICD to program the target using CCS's little proggy, but not debug.
:=
:=:=:=Haven't been keeping up with the times these days...
:=:=:=
:=:=:=If I did this does it mean I can use my ICD1 to program 18F parts?
:=:=:=
:=:=:=Do i also need MPLAB 6?
:=:=:=
:=:=Yes it does 18F parts and several times faster than ICD2.
:=:=No you don't need MPLAB6
:=:=I think we all knew it was technically possible that 18F parts could be programmed via the ICD1. Perhaps Microchip took a Marketing decision to promote ICD2 but since ICD2 added no real additional value above USB and hockey puck styling they decided to trash the ICD1 saying it could not support the 18F just to give the ICD2 a market boost.
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This message was ported from CCS's old forum
Original Post ID: 14202
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Al Testani